I mean besides that I fucking dropped the bomb on TPop contracts and almost no one seemed to be able to acknowledge that? Not the Engine denizens, not Rich Johnston, not Publisher's Weekly, not The Beat. Nope, Fanboy Rampage and that's about it.
Or being used over and over again and then being condemned, guilt-tripped, and whined at when I said no, thanks, I don't feel like it in fact I feel a bit put out that I only hear fromn you when you want something?
That while I didn't invent print-to-web comics, I sure as fuck was somewhere early in the history, and yet someone else does it and it's like they invented fire?
Those were factors, especially that TP one, but no, why I quit comics is this (by which I mean "the attitude displayed by the art and script"), from Rich Johnston's Lying in the Gutters column:
Vicki Vale's appearance in All-Star Batman:

Frank Miller's script for same:
The above is one of comics' legendary creators, a guy who once publically tore Wizard magazine a new taint. But this is comics, even when it's not out in the open: arrested adolescents in men's clothing, or women who accuse other women of "not getting it" or being bitter, old or jealous. Sure, the script was never meant for public consumption, but the attitude within is endemic.
To paraphrase a blogger Lisa read to me: Fuck you comics, fuck you and the horse you rode in on, and the little girl who fed it apples.
EDIT: I've clarified the post, since it did indeed read as if Vicki Vale's ass, and Frank Miller's not-for-the-public-but-still-yucky script drove me from comics. Perils of top of the fold writing. I apologize to everyone who read it wrong.
Or being used over and over again and then being condemned, guilt-tripped, and whined at when I said no, thanks, I don't feel like it in fact I feel a bit put out that I only hear fromn you when you want something?
That while I didn't invent print-to-web comics, I sure as fuck was somewhere early in the history, and yet someone else does it and it's like they invented fire?
Those were factors, especially that TP one, but no, why I quit comics is this (by which I mean "the attitude displayed by the art and script"), from Rich Johnston's Lying in the Gutters column:
Vicki Vale's appearance in All-Star Batman:

Frank Miller's script for same:
The above is one of comics' legendary creators, a guy who once publically tore Wizard magazine a new taint. But this is comics, even when it's not out in the open: arrested adolescents in men's clothing, or women who accuse other women of "not getting it" or being bitter, old or jealous. Sure, the script was never meant for public consumption, but the attitude within is endemic.
To paraphrase a blogger Lisa read to me: Fuck you comics, fuck you and the horse you rode in on, and the little girl who fed it apples.
EDIT: I've clarified the post, since it did indeed read as if Vicki Vale's ass, and Frank Miller's not-for-the-public-but-still-yucky script drove me from comics. Perils of top of the fold writing. I apologize to everyone who read it wrong.


Comments
Cheers.
Johanna
Then the script hit.
No more Miller for me, thanks.
You should have been at the store when we were unpacking this weeks comics. We were laughing hysterically page per page.
I like Jim Lee, too. He is a really nice guy, a very cool guy.
I can also sympathise to a degree about the TPop kerfluffle; I warned one particular webcomic artist about the publishing climate based on things you, Tavi, and other published artists have said...and now my husband gets hate mail from her flunkies. People are determined to go into things starry-eyed and stupid and then wonder why no one warned them in advance. *sigh* It's human nature to be willfully ignorant, I suppose.
No fears, there'll still be comics from me.
And it's..."Cathedral Child."
There is no changing the system.
I'm sorry, but the only comics I read when I was first getting interested in comics were Elfquest and Nausicaa. It didn't even occur to me for YEARS that comics like this even existed. And then the fact that the only movies based on comics that seem to get any attention are the ones featuring copious amounts of violence and only hot women who are all falling over the men. . . Uk. Brain snap.
Exactly why I quit reading comics pretty soon after I picked them up.
And thank you for blowing the lid, as someone had to, and there are numerous folks out there now armed with the info they need, and the requisite sharp, pointy objects of Doom.
RICAHRD WINS.
This is why I've barely touched an american comic in side of two years.
I try out for DC and places and NO wonder I'm shut down. It's not for lack of skill, but it's this dying world of hypocrits.
Lea, may your life be so much more stress free and filled with real comics that make you proud to own! cheers!
Well, this is part of the answer. Like an earlier reader, I assumed this-- and several scenes like it!-- was an artist's attempt at "spicing up" the script. That still would have been egregious and lamentable, but... I don't know, it bothers me more that it's Miller. He should just know better.
Of course, the fact that it is Miller is kinda a good thing. It makes the problem harder to dismiss. I like womens' butts a lot better than the next guy does, and I have no problem with the grand concept that is "sexy." This is a maladapted thirteen-year-old's version of sexy, though, and I have a problem with it. Not only does it make the medium that much harder for outsiders to take seriously, it is also driving readers and creators away.
Grr. Argh.
Please understand that I didn't intend to cause offense, merely used it as a beginning for a discussion on a related topic. And thank you personally for coming to read my blog regardless.
-Kalinara (a href="http://kalinara.blogspot.com")
And I'm not disagreeing with a single thing you said, even though I admit to enjoying the occassional cheesecake shot. It is not a substitute for a book actually being good. Perhaps if they forced creators to give equal fanservice to both male and female characters, they'd think twice.
I think it's a sad, sad selling point for a book about the World's Great Detective that the only good thing about the book was a well-drawn ass. Or conversely if you're not into that, nothing - since I found it sick, depraved, and psychopathic.
Frankly, the world of comics seems to be trying awfully to drive people away. As for the last 2 years, everyone seems intent on adding sexual abuse into the world of what used to be PG superhero comics. Even Kevin Smith is jumping on the bandwagon, inserting sexual abuse and rape into characters' pasts, after complaining about someone retconning one of his female characters to have HIV.
Since she has been mentinoed in your blog, Gail Simone is one of the few writers left in whom I have some faith. I found your bios of each other at the end of Killer Princesses terrific.
I used to respect Frank a great deal until that book came out. Now I question all the excuses I made for him not being a misogynist on Sin City. It seems it was just tits and ass and not noir homage meets pinup goddess adoration... color me fooled.
Personally, I think the comic by Lee and Miller is really two over paid guys doing a half assed job and hogging all the spotlight.
I don't it's worth it just for these guys, considering we need so much more diversity in the medium of comics.
That is why reading this entry (which I found linked from Johnston's latest column) has saddened me immensely. I feel my enjoyment of the medium has lessened with your exit, and I'm really pissed at Miller for his role in it (although I was pretty upset at the whole development to begin when I first saw the panel and script excerpt; still have yet to read an issue of All Star Batman, and I don't think I will now).
I'm sorry.
It's correct that I "quit" mainstream comics because I'm just exasperated with the juvenile attitude towards women within (and used that panel as an example).
If being savaged by peers (and I do not mean Gail Simone, folks, move along), being let down by companies I worked for, and a host of other exasperations and disappointments didn't make me quit, a childish hurr hurr hurr panel won't either.
Like, I said, just a symptom of a larger problem I'm no longer interested in dealing with. Someone else can change things from the inside. THAT'S what I quit.
But quit making comics? NEVER!
BTW, you're the second person to show up and comment today, five months after I wrote this entry. I'm wondering where you've come from.
This discussion is five months old, and here I've had FOUR new posts from two different people about it today. Where are you coming from?