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Why Did I Quit Comics?

  • Jan. 2nd, 2006 at 1:30 AM
roaring dragon, spore, monster friday
I mean besides that I fucking dropped the bomb on TPop contracts and almost no one seemed to be able to acknowledge that? Not the Engine denizens, not Rich Johnston, not Publisher's Weekly, not The Beat. Nope, Fanboy Rampage and that's about it.
Or being used over and over again and then being condemned, guilt-tripped, and whined at when I said no, thanks, I don't feel like it in fact I feel a bit put out that I only hear fromn you when you want something?
That while I didn't invent print-to-web comics, I sure as fuck was somewhere early in the history, and yet someone else does it and it's like they invented fire?

Those were factors, especially that TP one, but no, why I quit comics is this (by which I mean "the attitude displayed by the art and script"), from Rich Johnston's Lying in the Gutters column:

Vicki Vale's appearance in All-Star Batman:


Frank Miller's script for same:


The above is one of comics' legendary creators, a guy who once publically tore Wizard magazine a new taint. But this is comics, even when it's not out in the open: arrested adolescents in men's clothing, or women who accuse other women of "not getting it" or being bitter, old or jealous. Sure, the script was never meant for public consumption, but the attitude within is endemic.

To paraphrase a blogger Lisa read to me: Fuck you comics, fuck you and the horse you rode in on, and the little girl who fed it apples.

EDIT: I've clarified the post, since it did indeed read as if Vicki Vale's ass, and Frank Miller's not-for-the-public-but-still-yucky script drove me from comics. Perils of top of the fold writing. I apologize to everyone who read it wrong.

Comments

( 85 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]deadcities_icon wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 09:06 am (UTC)
It makes me incredibly sad that I agree precisely with what you say, Lea.

Cheers.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 06:40 pm (UTC)
I'll be off in my corner here, sculpting, writing and drawing, ignoring most of comics as irrelevant.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 01:53 pm (UTC)
Link Problem
Unfortunately, CBR doesn't allow hotlinking, which makes your point a bit obscure to those who haven't seen the idiocy you're talking about.

Johanna
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 06:39 pm (UTC)
Re: Link Problem
Fixed.
[info]pjoseph wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 02:04 pm (UTC)
It's funny, when I initially read that comic I assumed the T&A was the artist's misguided contribution. I complained about the inappropriateness of it at Millarworld. What woman walks around her apartment in high heels and her latest Victoria's Secret score?I had not seen anything in Miller's prior work to suggest that three pages of gratuity would come from him.

Then the script hit.

No more Miller for me, thanks.

[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 06:30 pm (UTC)
I'm a little startled, myself. Le sigh.
(no subject) - [info]strange_sleep - Jan. 10th, 2006 08:09 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]jackolantern - Feb. 3rd, 2006 05:30 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]aimeekitty - Nov. 9th, 2007 01:10 am (UTC)
[info]amboy00 wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 04:40 pm (UTC)
Jim Lee must have to shower a lot.

You should have been at the store when we were unpacking this weeks comics. We were laughing hysterically page per page.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 06:29 pm (UTC)
Well, at least there's still entertainment in comicss, even unintentional.

I like Jim Lee, too. He is a really nice guy, a very cool guy.
[info]miwasatoshi wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 04:59 pm (UTC)
Yanno, even I, with the "shameless pervert" icon, think this is beyond the pale. -_-
[info]whumpdotcom wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 07:15 pm (UTC)
Wow, from Dark Knight to girls in underwear and shiny guns... after watching the adaptation of Sin City, I'm not that surprised.
[info]arcana_j wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 07:34 pm (UTC)
Wait... I'm not the only one who hated that fucking movie!?
(no subject) - [info]ldragoon - Jan. 2nd, 2006 11:59 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]arcana_j - Jan. 3rd, 2006 12:46 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]jesshartley - Jan. 4th, 2006 01:16 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ldragoon - Jan. 4th, 2006 03:56 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 03:01 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]divalea - Jan. 7th, 2006 03:18 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 03:56 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]divalea - Jan. 7th, 2006 04:14 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 04:32 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ldragoon - Jan. 7th, 2006 07:40 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 08:34 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]teh_no - Jan. 10th, 2006 03:18 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]cameoflage - Mar. 18th, 2009 07:05 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck - Jan. 4th, 2006 05:47 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ldragoon - Jan. 4th, 2006 05:59 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]divalea - Jan. 4th, 2006 06:02 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ldragoon - Jan. 4th, 2006 06:53 am (UTC)
[info]star_sign wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 07:35 pm (UTC)
At the risk of having this read the wrong way...
As someone looking to get into the business myself, the lack of fanservice such as the above (except to mess with the heads of readers) is probably why our comic will probably never be popular. (Along with the fact that I'm not Japanese, and as we all know, only the Japanese can draw manga style. *eyeroll*) I can see why a veteran such as yourself would be too fed up to bother with it anymore, having to deal with males (I'm hard-pressed to call them men) who never grew out of their middle school days. I'll greatly miss your work, however; I still cherish Cathedral Girl.

I can also sympathise to a degree about the TPop kerfluffle; I warned one particular webcomic artist about the publishing climate based on things you, Tavi, and other published artists have said...and now my husband gets hate mail from her flunkies. People are determined to go into things starry-eyed and stupid and then wonder why no one warned them in advance. *sigh* It's human nature to be willfully ignorant, I suppose.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 07:41 pm (UTC)
Re: At the risk of having this read the wrong way...
I haven't quit MAKING comics, just quit bothering with the business.
No fears, there'll still be comics from me.

And it's..."Cathedral Child."
Miller - [info]tormentedartist - Jan. 3rd, 2006 03:51 pm (UTC)
[info]prettyism wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 11:55 pm (UTC)
It's good you're getting away from that stuff, a lot of bad energy. I've always thought of you as a prelude to the the kind of manga influenced comics that are going on now. Fortunately I've missed out on American Superhero Comics, I came in with the Sailor Moon ship. :about the soft porn pic, trying to figure out why undies up the toosh ia sexy?:
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 3rd, 2006 03:40 am (UTC)
I can walk away now because there's a delivery system for sharing comics that doesn't involve Comics the Way They Are.

There is no changing the system.
(no subject) - [info]prettyism - Jan. 4th, 2006 12:53 pm (UTC)
[info]ldragoon wrote:
Jan. 2nd, 2006 11:58 pm (UTC)
yeah, I kind of have to TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. What a fucking childish image. Yeah, because the ONLY women in the WORLD are the hot ones, and no one in their right mind would draw an woman who is even slightly overweight, much less let them wear normal clothes and have the image focused on their FUCKING FACE!!!

I'm sorry, but the only comics I read when I was first getting interested in comics were Elfquest and Nausicaa. It didn't even occur to me for YEARS that comics like this even existed. And then the fact that the only movies based on comics that seem to get any attention are the ones featuring copious amounts of violence and only hot women who are all falling over the men. . . Uk. Brain snap.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 3rd, 2006 03:38 am (UTC)
That's it. My brain just went "pa-TINK!"
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 03:19 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ldragoon - Jan. 7th, 2006 07:42 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 08:20 am (UTC)
[info]uminomamori wrote:
Jan. 3rd, 2006 01:28 am (UTC)
AAAGH MY EYES!

Exactly why I quit reading comics pretty soon after I picked them up.
[info]jeepersjournal wrote:
Jan. 3rd, 2006 02:25 am (UTC)
I just HAVE to say it- it looks like Vicki has a talking Maple Leaf on her ass.
And thank you for blowing the lid, as someone had to, and there are numerous folks out there now armed with the info they need, and the requisite sharp, pointy objects of Doom.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 06:03 am (UTC)
You see maple leaves everywhere. It is your duty as a Canadian.
[info]dedagda wrote:
Jan. 3rd, 2006 04:01 am (UTC)
How embarrassing
I have those same panties.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 05:33 am (UTC)
Re: How embarrassing
BWAHAHAHAHA!

RICAHRD WINS.
[info]nonamecity wrote:
Jan. 3rd, 2006 06:34 pm (UTC)
I never looked at Vicki vale that way, and never want to again...

This is why I've barely touched an american comic in side of two years.
I try out for DC and places and NO wonder I'm shut down. It's not for lack of skill, but it's this dying world of hypocrits.

Lea, may your life be so much more stress free and filled with real comics that make you proud to own! cheers!
[info]divalea wrote:
May. 31st, 2006 06:25 pm (UTC)
A million years later: Thanks for that!
[info]victor_von wrote:
Jan. 4th, 2006 02:47 am (UTC)
I should say that I didn't read beyond the first issue of this series, which surprised me. Frank Miller? Batman? How can you go wrong?

Well, this is part of the answer. Like an earlier reader, I assumed this-- and several scenes like it!-- was an artist's attempt at "spicing up" the script. That still would have been egregious and lamentable, but... I don't know, it bothers me more that it's Miller. He should just know better.

Of course, the fact that it is Miller is kinda a good thing. It makes the problem harder to dismiss. I like womens' butts a lot better than the next guy does, and I have no problem with the grand concept that is "sexy." This is a maladapted thirteen-year-old's version of sexy, though, and I have a problem with it. Not only does it make the medium that much harder for outsiders to take seriously, it is also driving readers and creators away.

Grr. Argh.
[info]smilodon wrote:
Jan. 5th, 2006 07:50 am (UTC)
I have to say, as much as I agree with you on this one that its a shame that this one facet of All Star Batman and Robin is getting so much attention. There is so much more just bad and wrong about these books than that one panel. I really wanted to like this too; I followed along through the first two but after looking at the the third issue I've just given up.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 5th, 2006 09:37 pm (UTC)
It's a really FINE ASS, though!
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 03:09 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]smilodon - Jan. 7th, 2006 07:08 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]raielchan - Jan. 7th, 2006 08:37 am (UTC)
[info]kalinara wrote:
Jan. 5th, 2006 07:34 pm (UTC)
An Apology:
I'd like to officially apologize for misrepresenting you in my blog entry. I did not intend to place words in your mouth. And I apologize for misunderstanding and shall amend the entry accordingly.

Please understand that I didn't intend to cause offense, merely used it as a beginning for a discussion on a related topic. And thank you personally for coming to read my blog regardless.

-Kalinara (a href="http://kalinara.blogspot.com")
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 28th, 2006 04:10 am (UTC)
Re: An Apology:
Forgot to answer this: No problem, and I like your blog.
[info]raielchan wrote:
Jan. 7th, 2006 02:53 am (UTC)
Perhaps not exactly ironically, Vicki's ass was the only part of Miller and Lee's Batman comic that I could say I enjoyed.

And I'm not disagreeing with a single thing you said, even though I admit to enjoying the occassional cheesecake shot. It is not a substitute for a book actually being good. Perhaps if they forced creators to give equal fanservice to both male and female characters, they'd think twice.

I think it's a sad, sad selling point for a book about the World's Great Detective that the only good thing about the book was a well-drawn ass. Or conversely if you're not into that, nothing - since I found it sick, depraved, and psychopathic.

Frankly, the world of comics seems to be trying awfully to drive people away. As for the last 2 years, everyone seems intent on adding sexual abuse into the world of what used to be PG superhero comics. Even Kevin Smith is jumping on the bandwagon, inserting sexual abuse and rape into characters' pasts, after complaining about someone retconning one of his female characters to have HIV.

Since she has been mentinoed in your blog, Gail Simone is one of the few writers left in whom I have some faith. I found your bios of each other at the end of Killer Princesses terrific.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2006 08:17 am (UTC)
shameless ass shots are awesome and JIm Lee is the greatest
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2006 08:24 am (UTC)
What the fuck do you expect?
It's a comic book. Do you think I, a guy, get upset because every male character has huge muscles? Grow the fuck up. What a silly thing. Whiniest, most dumbass blog I never read.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 8th, 2006 08:52 am (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect?
You. Fuck off. Thanks.
Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]_____six - May. 31st, 2006 04:00 pm (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]divalea - May. 31st, 2006 06:24 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_____six - May. 31st, 2006 10:31 pm (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]divalea - May. 31st, 2006 10:43 pm (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]godplaysdice - Jan. 8th, 2006 09:45 pm (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]solomonlame - Jan. 9th, 2006 09:12 pm (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]solomonlame - Jan. 9th, 2006 09:13 pm (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]cameoflage - Mar. 18th, 2009 06:54 am (UTC)
[info]thekamisama wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 11:39 pm (UTC)
Came over out of curiosity from the Bookslut link.
I used to respect Frank a great deal until that book came out. Now I question all the excuses I made for him not being a misogynist on Sin City. It seems it was just tits and ass and not noir homage meets pinup goddess adoration... color me fooled.
[info]crithon wrote:
Jan. 11th, 2006 09:41 pm (UTC)
sorry to hear you leave comics.
Personally, I think the comic by Lee and Miller is really two over paid guys doing a half assed job and hogging all the spotlight.
I don't it's worth it just for these guys, considering we need so much more diversity in the medium of comics.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 13th, 2006 04:58 am (UTC)
See my answer to frankiethirteen. Didn't quit making comics. Quit putting up with the bullshit.
[info]frankiethirteen wrote:
Jan. 13th, 2006 01:45 am (UTC)
Lea, I've been an admirer of your work since Cathedral Child. In fact, shortly after I read it the first time, I wrote you a fan e-mail which you responded to with little delay.

That is why reading this entry (which I found linked from Johnston's latest column) has saddened me immensely. I feel my enjoyment of the medium has lessened with your exit, and I'm really pissed at Miller for his role in it (although I was pretty upset at the whole development to begin when I first saw the panel and script excerpt; still have yet to read an issue of All Star Batman, and I don't think I will now).

I'm sorry.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 13th, 2006 04:56 am (UTC)
Don't say goodbye yet, Frankie. I only quit looking for work to support myself within comics, I'm still writing and drawing my own books, including a neew Texas Steampunk at girlamatic.com.

It's correct that I "quit" mainstream comics because I'm just exasperated with the juvenile attitude towards women within (and used that panel as an example).
If being savaged by peers (and I do not mean Gail Simone, folks, move along), being let down by companies I worked for, and a host of other exasperations and disappointments didn't make me quit, a childish hurr hurr hurr panel won't either.

Like, I said, just a symptom of a larger problem I'm no longer interested in dealing with. Someone else can change things from the inside. THAT'S what I quit.

But quit making comics? NEVER!

[info]imasleepviking wrote:
May. 31st, 2006 06:04 pm (UTC)
So you don't like their style of writing? So you don't like that it shows a butt shot and we're meant to look at it? That's the way they want to write it, then let them have it. It shows bad taste on your part as claiming that that may indeed be a part of the reason you got out of it. If it's not, and you're just complaining about it, sure, then complain. No one has to conform to your style of writing and comic making. That's not really a reason to quit comics. Don't read it, that's the best way to deal with it. Sounds like someone got the case of the whines.
[info]divalea wrote:
May. 31st, 2006 06:19 pm (UTC)
I suggest you read entries after this one before commenting, because you clearly don't understand what I said, and I sure ain't gonna explain it again.

BTW, you're the second person to show up and comment today, five months after I wrote this entry. I'm wondering where you've come from.
(no subject) - [info] - May. 31st, 2006 11:36 pm (UTC)
[info]divalea wrote:
May. 31st, 2006 11:47 pm (UTC)
Re: What the fuck do you expect?
That it's been part of comics for a long time doesn't make it right.

This discussion is five months old, and here I've had FOUR new posts from two different people about it today. Where are you coming from?



Re: What the fuck do you expect? - [info]divalea - May. 31st, 2006 11:47 pm (UTC)
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